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	<title>Comments on: Radical Unschooling, Unschooling, Tidal Homeschooling, and the Wearing of Shoes that Fit</title>
	<atom:link href="http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/</link>
	<description>Children's Book Author</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Becky</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4639</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4639</guid>
		<description>"So, you mean that it isn't a label or a theory that drives your schooling, rather your perception of your family's needs?"

For our family,  it isn't the *perception* of our needs but the actual needs that drive our schooling, not to mention all of the other decisions we make and directions we take :)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, you mean that it isn&#8217;t a label or a theory that drives your schooling, rather your perception of your family&#8217;s needs?&#8221;</p>
<p>For our family,  it isn&#8217;t the *perception* of our needs but the actual needs that drive our schooling, not to mention all of the other decisions we make and directions we take <img src='http://melissawiley.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: patience</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4638</link>
		<dc:creator>patience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 02:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4638</guid>
		<description>Aside from everything else, which is extremely interesting but don't get me started! - I'd like to comment on this one aspect:

"So, you mean that it isn't a label or a theory that drives your schooling, rather your perception of your family's needs?"

It makes sense to me that homeschooling should be strongly influenced by the parent's perception of her family's needs. But at the same time I worry myself that I do *too much* of this, and that I would benefit from having a definite foundation that remained stable through the years but over which we could lay simple changes as called upon by seasons, emotional needs, etc.

When my dd was 4 - 6 years old, we mainly did unit studies. That was the basis of our homeschooling. It gave us security and trust, knowing that's how we framed our education. When we outgrew them, it was hard to find something else that fit. Too many good choices, I suppose! (And the fact that nothing fit exactly to what we wanted/needed.) Someone told me once that I had homeschooler's ADHD, and she's probably right. These days, I use a bit of this, a bit of that, and because of this lack of adherence to one Old Faithful method it can get easy for me to derail myself or question whether I'm doing things properly.

So while I'm against labels I do wonder sometimes if I would be better off choosing one plan and sticking to it. I wonder if anyone else ever has the same inner debate?

Sorry for what is ostensibly a blog post in your comments list!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from everything else, which is extremely interesting but don&#8217;t get me started! - I&#8217;d like to comment on this one aspect:</p>
<p>&#8220;So, you mean that it isn&#8217;t a label or a theory that drives your schooling, rather your perception of your family&#8217;s needs?&#8221;</p>
<p>It makes sense to me that homeschooling should be strongly influenced by the parent&#8217;s perception of her family&#8217;s needs. But at the same time I worry myself that I do *too much* of this, and that I would benefit from having a definite foundation that remained stable through the years but over which we could lay simple changes as called upon by seasons, emotional needs, etc.</p>
<p>When my dd was 4 - 6 years old, we mainly did unit studies. That was the basis of our homeschooling. It gave us security and trust, knowing that&#8217;s how we framed our education. When we outgrew them, it was hard to find something else that fit. Too many good choices, I suppose! (And the fact that nothing fit exactly to what we wanted/needed.) Someone told me once that I had homeschooler&#8217;s ADHD, and she&#8217;s probably right. These days, I use a bit of this, a bit of that, and because of this lack of adherence to one Old Faithful method it can get easy for me to derail myself or question whether I&#8217;m doing things properly.</p>
<p>So while I&#8217;m against labels I do wonder sometimes if I would be better off choosing one plan and sticking to it. I wonder if anyone else ever has the same inner debate?</p>
<p>Sorry for what is ostensibly a blog post in your comments list!</p>
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		<title>By: Christie</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4637</link>
		<dc:creator>Christie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4637</guid>
		<description>huh. I got from J's post that she was agreeing with you and suggesting that the labels were essentially useless (like a tool only for seeing if you could surf with the waldorf moms or the unschool moms...ect). What I got from her comment was that others should do as you have and throw off the labels and do as you have by blogging about mission statements and goals - the personal stuff rather than  blogging about their efforts to fit into certain labels.

Anyway, I always love your long bg picture posts. I often have so many of these thoughts swirling around in my head and never get to putting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard so eventually give up on me.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huh. I got from J&#8217;s post that she was agreeing with you and suggesting that the labels were essentially useless (like a tool only for seeing if you could surf with the waldorf moms or the unschool moms&#8230;ect). What I got from her comment was that others should do as you have and throw off the labels and do as you have by blogging about mission statements and goals - the personal stuff rather than  blogging about their efforts to fit into certain labels.</p>
<p>Anyway, I always love your long bg picture posts. I often have so many of these thoughts swirling around in my head and never get to putting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard so eventually give up on me.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa Wiley</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4636</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4636</guid>
		<description>Hi, Elizabeth!

What I meant by that was that I have benefited in many ways by your book as well as the years of insights and ideas shared by the people on the CCM list and the 4Real forum.

I wasn't suggesting that I have developed a method or theory of education; "tidal homeschooling" is a metaphor, not a movement. It's nothing more than a useful image for people who, like me, think in word pictures. Useful to me, at least!

Yes, as the women who share their family's learning adventures on the 4Real forum and on their blogs show on a daily basis, there are many, many ways "real learning" plays out in a family context. I think your book does a beautiful job of connecting Charlotte Mason philosophy to a Catholic perspective and showing how rich and lively a literature-based, nature-study-embracing, attachment-parenting, Catholic-family-centered education can be.

I have learned much from you, and from pure-CM people (like The Common Room family), and radical unschoolers (like Sandra Dodd), and Waldorf homeschoolers (like Donna Simmons), and classical-ed folks (like Willa Ryan of Every Waking Hour, who strikes me as classical, CM-influenced unschooler—not to pin a label on her, of course!). I've learned from many people, and tidal homeschooling is my personal assimilation of what I understand about education thus far--a metaphor that describes how we live, not a method we strive to follow, if that makes sense.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Elizabeth!</p>
<p>What I meant by that was that I have benefited in many ways by your book as well as the years of insights and ideas shared by the people on the CCM list and the 4Real forum.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t suggesting that I have developed a method or theory of education; &#8220;tidal homeschooling&#8221; is a metaphor, not a movement. It&#8217;s nothing more than a useful image for people who, like me, think in word pictures. Useful to me, at least!</p>
<p>Yes, as the women who share their family&#8217;s learning adventures on the 4Real forum and on their blogs show on a daily basis, there are many, many ways &#8220;real learning&#8221; plays out in a family context. I think your book does a beautiful job of connecting Charlotte Mason philosophy to a Catholic perspective and showing how rich and lively a literature-based, nature-study-embracing, attachment-parenting, Catholic-family-centered education can be.</p>
<p>I have learned much from you, and from pure-CM people (like The Common Room family), and radical unschoolers (like Sandra Dodd), and Waldorf homeschoolers (like Donna Simmons), and classical-ed folks (like Willa Ryan of Every Waking Hour, who strikes me as classical, CM-influenced unschooler—not to pin a label on her, of course!). I&#8217;ve learned from many people, and tidal homeschooling is my personal assimilation of what I understand about education thus far&#8211;a metaphor that describes how we live, not a method we strive to follow, if that makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Foss</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4635</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Foss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4635</guid>
		<description>Lissa,
You wrote:
"But it was the Radical Unschoolers who taught me this lesson, and I will continue to enjoy learning from their perspective— just as I learn from the pure Charlotte Mason folks and the Real Learners and the classical-ed people and the Waldorf folks."

I'm not sure I understand this since "Real Learning" can include Charlotte Mason, classical, unschooling and even a little Waldorf. Real Learners are people who tailor the education to the needs of the family as suggested by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes, Real Learning families might use a pure CM curriculum and sometimes the same family might usnchool. Sometimes, a family's Real Learning journey looks like "high tide" and sometimes it looks like "low tide" and sometimes we have art binges or nature binges or we are all learning together in the midst of a crisis. Frequently, the atmosphere changes with the seasons and often, it changes with the passion and interest of the learners.It all counts as learning as long as it's in the context of the real life of a real family.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lissa,<br />
You wrote:<br />
&#8220;But it was the Radical Unschoolers who taught me this lesson, and I will continue to enjoy learning from their perspective— just as I learn from the pure Charlotte Mason folks and the Real Learners and the classical-ed people and the Waldorf folks.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand this since &#8220;Real Learning&#8221; can include Charlotte Mason, classical, unschooling and even a little Waldorf. Real Learners are people who tailor the education to the needs of the family as suggested by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes, Real Learning families might use a pure CM curriculum and sometimes the same family might usnchool. Sometimes, a family&#8217;s Real Learning journey looks like &#8220;high tide&#8221; and sometimes it looks like &#8220;low tide&#8221; and sometimes we have art binges or nature binges or we are all learning together in the midst of a crisis. Frequently, the atmosphere changes with the seasons and often, it changes with the passion and interest of the learners.It all counts as learning as long as it&#8217;s in the context of the real life of a real family.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa Wiley</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4634</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4634</guid>
		<description>J, you've asked some interesting questions and I might tackle some of them in a post. But let me speak first to this:

&lt;i&gt;"Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't help families to be more explicit about goals in family life and childrearing and to be less explicit about methods. Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than how doing x means you can surf with the cool moms. ;)"&lt;/i&gt;

Sometimes you wonder if it wouldn't be more helpful for *me* to be more explicit about childrearing goals, or for homeschooling bloggers in general to do so?

I've read many a post about what hs'ers are aiming for, and why they've chosen this path. I've written about that myself, from time to time. It would be hard to write on that topic day after day, however, and I think my readers would get a little tired of hearing about what kind of people I hope my children turn out to be!

Would it be "more helpful to families" if I were "less explicit about methods"? I don't see how. My aim here, which is written at the top of this blog (see the righthand sidebar), is to "share the resources that make learning a joy."

Homeschoolers (and school-schoolers, for that matter) have a bewildering array of choices for educational materials, and one of the things I'm trying to do here is share my firsthand experiences with some of the options.

&lt;i&gt;"Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than how doing x means you can surf with the cool moms. ;)"&lt;/i&gt;

Again, I'm not sure if you're speaking to hs bloggers in general, or to me in particular.

If you're seeing a "cool moms use THIS method" tone in my posts, I think you're misreading me; I am not trying to sell anyone on ANY particular method, and I write about more than one method, sometimes in depth, because I find it interesting to look at what an educational philosopher is proposing, and how those ideas might play out in a real home.

&lt;i&gt;"Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than..."&lt;/i&gt;

Why not blog about debt reduction, or food, or politics? All are topics worthy of discussion in a blog format. But they aren't my topics. If you're seeing a hole in the blogosphere, why not fill it yourself? I'd be the first person to add you to my Google Reader queue!

I'm not sure my personal family mission statement would make for interesting reading on an ongoing basis. It might make for one meaty post. I have written about our hopes for our children in the heart of many posts, because those hopes are what informs the decisions we make day to day. Short term, long term goals...I think my Rule of Six, which has appeared in my sidebar since this blog's inception, sums up my short-term (daily) goals for my children pretty well. Long term goal: heaven. What kind of adults do I hope they will be? Honest, kind, happy, brave, interested in other people and in the world, with healthy habits. But I'm not sure blogging about that vision on a regular basis would be "more helpful to families" than posts about concrete subjects like getting ear molds made, or book reviews, or discussions of methodology.

As I said, I do think you've raised some interesting questions about goals implicit in educational methods, and education with a vision in mind vs. educating with a specific child's needs in mind, and I will try to address those questions in future posts. But the last part of your comment puzzled me. I blog about what seems interesting to me, and what I hope will be interesting to my readers, and I do hope to be helpful.  I assume readers who are not interested in or helped by my content won't stick around.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J, you&#8217;ve asked some interesting questions and I might tackle some of them in a post. But let me speak first to this:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn&#8217;t help families to be more explicit about goals in family life and childrearing and to be less explicit about methods. Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than how doing x means you can surf with the cool moms. ;)&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Sometimes you wonder if it wouldn&#8217;t be more helpful for *me* to be more explicit about childrearing goals, or for homeschooling bloggers in general to do so?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read many a post about what hs&#8217;ers are aiming for, and why they&#8217;ve chosen this path. I&#8217;ve written about that myself, from time to time. It would be hard to write on that topic day after day, however, and I think my readers would get a little tired of hearing about what kind of people I hope my children turn out to be!</p>
<p>Would it be &#8220;more helpful to families&#8221; if I were &#8220;less explicit about methods&#8221;? I don&#8217;t see how. My aim here, which is written at the top of this blog (see the righthand sidebar), is to &#8220;share the resources that make learning a joy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Homeschoolers (and school-schoolers, for that matter) have a bewildering array of choices for educational materials, and one of the things I&#8217;m trying to do here is share my firsthand experiences with some of the options.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than how doing x means you can surf with the cool moms. ;)&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;re speaking to hs bloggers in general, or to me in particular.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re seeing a &#8220;cool moms use THIS method&#8221; tone in my posts, I think you&#8217;re misreading me; I am not trying to sell anyone on ANY particular method, and I write about more than one method, sometimes in depth, because I find it interesting to look at what an educational philosopher is proposing, and how those ideas might play out in a real home.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Why not blog about debt reduction, or food, or politics? All are topics worthy of discussion in a blog format. But they aren&#8217;t my topics. If you&#8217;re seeing a hole in the blogosphere, why not fill it yourself? I&#8217;d be the first person to add you to my Google Reader queue!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure my personal family mission statement would make for interesting reading on an ongoing basis. It might make for one meaty post. I have written about our hopes for our children in the heart of many posts, because those hopes are what informs the decisions we make day to day. Short term, long term goals&#8230;I think my Rule of Six, which has appeared in my sidebar since this blog&#8217;s inception, sums up my short-term (daily) goals for my children pretty well. Long term goal: heaven. What kind of adults do I hope they will be? Honest, kind, happy, brave, interested in other people and in the world, with healthy habits. But I&#8217;m not sure blogging about that vision on a regular basis would be &#8220;more helpful to families&#8221; than posts about concrete subjects like getting ear molds made, or book reviews, or discussions of methodology.</p>
<p>As I said, I do think you&#8217;ve raised some interesting questions about goals implicit in educational methods, and education with a vision in mind vs. educating with a specific child&#8217;s needs in mind, and I will try to address those questions in future posts. But the last part of your comment puzzled me. I blog about what seems interesting to me, and what I hope will be interesting to my readers, and I do hope to be helpful.  I assume readers who are not interested in or helped by my content won&#8217;t stick around.</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://melissawiley.com/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4633</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.29.64.190/~mwiley/blog/2007/06/22/radical-unschooling-unschooling-tidal-homeschooling-and-the-wearing-of-shoes-that-fit/#comment-4633</guid>
		<description>So, you mean that it isn't a label or a theory that drives your schooling, rather your perception of your family's needs?

That's interesting.  When you listen to people speak about these theories (and even HS in general), you get the feeling that it's all very bottom-up.  There is SUPPOSED to be a specific set of implicit goals such as "wonder," "well-roundedness," "emotional awareness," "rigor" and perhaps even some covert mission statement out there, right?  These goals supposedly educate the theory and account for its methods, right?  But doesn't it seem like those goals sometimes get lost in a confusion of method and theory?  And if those goals get lost, what happens to the  child and to the family?  Do they simply become products of method and theory? Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't help families to be more explicit about goals in family life and childrearing and to be less explicit about methods.  Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than how doing x means you can surf with the cool moms. ;)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you mean that it isn&#8217;t a label or a theory that drives your schooling, rather your perception of your family&#8217;s needs?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s interesting.  When you listen to people speak about these theories (and even HS in general), you get the feeling that it&#8217;s all very bottom-up.  There is SUPPOSED to be a specific set of implicit goals such as &#8220;wonder,&#8221; &#8220;well-roundedness,&#8221; &#8220;emotional awareness,&#8221; &#8220;rigor&#8221; and perhaps even some covert mission statement out there, right?  These goals supposedly educate the theory and account for its methods, right?  But doesn&#8217;t it seem like those goals sometimes get lost in a confusion of method and theory?  And if those goals get lost, what happens to the  child and to the family?  Do they simply become products of method and theory? Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn&#8217;t help families to be more explicit about goals in family life and childrearing and to be less explicit about methods.  Perhaps blog about mission statements and personal beliefs about desired short term and long term outcomes rather than how doing x means you can surf with the cool moms. <img src='http://melissawiley.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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