However, we did intensely disagree on the merits of Saxon math - LOL.

I, too, am sad that the 4Reallearning Forum is down for it has helped me to grow so much in my faith. My favorite place to glean info was from “A Living Faith”.
So many wonderful ideas.
Blessings,
marianne

I have so much I would like to comment on… about Montessori and Theosophy and fantasy, about G.K. Chesterton and his comments about fairytales in Orthodoxy, about our Catholic Moral Imagination and the Sacramental view of life…

But for now I would just like to make a little comment about the fears that Waldorf education would draw people away from the Faith.

Our family began our homeschooling journey with a Waldorf-inspired view. That was in 1995. Our Waldorf-inspired view” was one of the things that drew us to the Catholic Church. Before that we were agnostic. We were greatly inspired by the Goodness, Reverence, Truth, and Beauty of following the Liturgical year and celebrating it’s festivals. And we were inspired by our studies of the lives of the Saints. And we were inspire by the “Sacramental view” of and reverence for God’s creation. We looked for something True that could inspire us this way…and we finally found the Church in 2002. Of course other things had influence on us during our journey, but, for us, Waldorf education was part of the path TO the Church…not away from it.

A family’s choice of education methods, seem to me to be a matter of personal discernment.

I’m sure someone could find something wrong with every method. Certainly, no one educational theory is perfect, much less the founders of any theory. After all, they are only human and therefore imperfect themselves.

If we must avoid anything that is not deemed 100% acceptable, we’ll surely miss out on a great variety of life and send ourselves and our families into an isolation from most of the rest of the world.

I realize that a poorly catechised and disallusioned Catholic, may leave the Church to follow Anthroposophy, but might they just as well leave to follow anything or nothing at all?

I am not going to go back and read the links you posted only because I have left my anthroposophical studies behind and do not wish to spend the time on that endeavor when I have a stack of Catholic literature to read.

I do want to be clear that I was *in no way* trying compare the Catholic Mass with the Christian Community Service - I really don’t know that much about it - I only know that a gardener I knew went to a Catholic wedding and it was obvious to this person that this particular priest did not believe in what he was doing. (Very sad - but it happens) Even though I was not a practicing Catholic at that time - I did stand up and say that this one priest is not necessarily representative of the Catholic priesthood. My only point is that the serious anthroposophists I have known are very sensitive to acts of irreverence and take their spiritual lives very seriously.

Two of the many reasons I went back to my Catholic faith were Steiner’s own description of the Catholic Mass he attended and served for as a boy and the writings of a student of Steiner’s who later stunned fellow anthroposophists when he converted to Catholicism.

I left the Catholic Church for very personal reasons and I don’t think I would have healed some very deep hurts if I did not have that time away and the ability to truly come back of my own free will. There is more to the story but

back to Waldorf Ed -
I am going to suggest that you can get a feel for Waldorf and take good things from it without ever reading a book of Steiner’s. The homeschooling parent is not (and I wouldn’t recommend it) going to enter a Waldorf teacher training program to teach in a Waldorf school. You don’t need to examine every facet of anthroposophy - the fact that a lot of the Waldorf curriculum works for me does not necessarily say to me that Steiner got everything right - he got some things right. But I don’t think anthroposophy has the fullness of truth - and it never defined my relationship God. It was interesting in the way my philosophy classes were interesting in college.

I don’t know maybe I should be more nervous than I am - I still suffer from very intense doubts about my faith but that is when I say to myself that faith is a gift you have to take care of - it’s not a feeling. But part of that faith for me is trusting the sacraments, trusting in a relationship with Jesus Christ even when I don’t feel it. If I am doing what I need to do in terms of my prayer life and proper reception of the sacraments - I am not going to be afraid that drawing a celtic knot and calling it Form Drawing is going to have any power over me or my children.

What I do in my *Catholic* homeschool now is follow the basic scope and sequence of Waldorf education - I think it makes sense. I supplement my many non-Waldorf curriculum choices with some Waldorf inspired stories in the younger grades. By about 5th grade I take a much more classical approach and Steiner actually spoke about the need to continue to accomodate students who showed a capacity for a classical education. We use many of the resources that take us through the seasons of the year - story books, songs, handwork, recitation. I adapted a Waldorf play of a Greek myth and put on a wonderful little production with some other families last year.

Waldorf still inspires me to take care of even my children’s most basic needs with care and thoughtfulness. I think that where other curriculums do have the beauty and certainly the intellectual components Waldorf seems to have a sense of warmth and tenderness and care that I have not found elsewhere. I think this is what people key into when they sense the healing aspects.

The biggest way anthroposophy relates to Waldorf Ed is in Steiner’s ideas about human development. The Waldorf educator is mainly concerned with the first 3 seven year periods of child’s life. They are ages 0-6, 7-13, 14-20. So for each period there is a description of what the child needs at this age, activities that are best suited to that child, literature that speak to the child of that age, and ideas about how one might teach a child of that age.

In these stages - which of course have their own fancy anthroposophical names- what you are talking about are the capacities of the soul - willing, feeling, and thinking. Here is where I found many connections to CM - there are differences but I don’t think you have to pit one against the other but by looking at all these ideas it gives me a sense of wonder about it all - how my children grow and learn - that light in their eyes.

Has everything about Waldorf worked for me? - no. Part of the underlying philosophy of Waldorf Education is to look at the child you have before you. And I do feel that crucial component might be getting lost in Waldorf schools where perhaps children are being asked to fit into a conceptual model of the curriculum instead of adapting the curriculum to the child. Which of course is the ultimate advantage of homeschooling no matter what you are using.

There are things I am uneasy about that I see other homeschoolers talk about. I am familiar with that “little feeling” - I would say listen to it if you have it about Waldorf. But for me - especially for my third child who has some real developmental difficulties I can’t imagine raising him without the insights I have gleaned from Waldorf Ed.

Sorry for the length -

Donna
This is not the easiest venue to have this conversation! Goodness Lissa - thank you - are you feeling like a whole crowd has sort of set up camp in your living romm?

At the risk of veering back into meta-discussion, I wanted to respond to Molly’s concerns.

Molly wrote: So, what am I angry about? I am not angry at Elizabeth for walking away. I am not angry that the moderators have taken a break to re-group, although this has been a hard week for me. If the board does not re-open, I will have a serious hole in my life.

Molly, I am really sorry you are hurting. It may help put things in perspective to know that Elizabeth has been contemplating stepping away from the boards for a long time. The time drain has been tremendous. It can become very difficult for a busy mom to justify pouring so much time into discussion. I know I for one have been unable to participate as fully in *this* conversation as I would have liked, but (like everyone else) my time goes to the kids first. This week, the computer got second place, bumping the housework to third. (Don’t ask where that leaves poor John Stossel. He has been very understanding this week.)

I am angry that those who had a problem with the Waldorf thread could not be satisfied with saying their opinion and then moving on. Many of us were enjoying that thread and learning a lot. We heard what you had to say, considered it, and still felt that the discussion was worth continuing. But you would not back down.

I don’t think the urge to continue the discussion had anything to do with someone being determined to ‘win.’ I think some people had questions they really wanted to grapple with, and I think the length and breadth of the discussion here speaks to the legitimacy of the topic. I know I am still finding much food for thought in these posts.

I did not get a chance to read the thread about the closing of threads, so I cannot comment on it. Someone here alluded to that thread as being the straw that broke the camel’s back so to speak. I can only imagine things that were said.

Oh, no, it wasn’t like that at all–nothing harsh or angry. I’m the one who mentioned it here, and what I meant was that I think I really offended or hurt some people by chiming in with thoughts about the logistics of moderating and closing threads. I didn’t mean to be critical at all; I was hoping to be helpful. But as soon as I realized I’d caused offense, I apologized. I would have done so in public on the boards, but Angie had asked that the conversation be dropped altogether. I really am sorry for phrasing things poorly. But I have no idea how much that had to do with the moderators deciding to spend the week on retreat–they have much going on in their family lives, and it may well be that they just plain needed a break.

I think Kym is very much on target when she says: I think the reasons the board closed and why Elizabeth resigned probably have more to them than just the Waldorf thread. I have noticed over the past few months there seemed to be some changes already happening. There were different moderators, people who had been pretty active before weren’t around much, that type of thing. I think there have been a lot of changes in the online world as the internet evolves.

And Shirley, I apologize for naming this thread poorly. I can see how the title could be misleading. I should have been clearer about how specific the topic was. I really appreciate the forbearance and understanding of all my non-4Real readers this past week–I’m so grateful for your patience and contributions !